Kelly Corrigan:Sure, my pleasure. Today, Im speaking with New York Times bestselling author, Kelly Corrigan. Kelly Corrigan:And it wasnt my turn for his attention. Kate Bowler:I do think people offer certainties when they think that youre proof of something that scares them, and they cant just live in the uncertainty of not knowing for a minute. As Teri said, He didnt have a drug problem, he had a life problem. Claire, Shes not going to hold their babies.. You cant live in that. Constance shares her experiences as an actress in Hollywood both on and off screen: the privilege and responsibility of representation, being a true artist, navigating social media and an incident which took her to a very dark place.Special thanks to PBS for supporting Tell Me More and this podcast series. Kelly Corrigan:One that Ive always liked is, Things happen when you leave the house. I think I like the sense of theres something out there that you can tap into. Labels like chronic illness, or caregiver, or widow, or mom of a kid with special needs. Kelly Corrigan:They hate it. But the fact is if I said, Tell me more, go on, what else, youd say the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing, and it would be like the thing behind the thing, behind the thing is where really the pain is, and if I had waited way longer, I wouldve been able to say, Oh, I understand.. Team Everything Happens. Kilpy Mary Anne, Mary Anne, Kelly Corrigan:So, I had to wait, and then finally we had a window, and I said, I was wrong. Kelly Corrigan:Im telling you what, man, you can not believe how much I use this, and you can not believe how still it is not my natural instinct. So, its funny that that phrase really begat the whole book in a way, because I had been feeling this shame about not really earning my days here, and then Ed and I were at dinner, and we were talking about the difference between saying Im sorry, and saying I was wrong, and I was saying, God, its so much more powerful though in the humility in saying I was wrong.. This is me writing a letter to Liz, and I wrote the whole thing, and I cried my eyes out the whole time I was writing it, and wiping my nose, and blowing my nose, and sitting back down, and Edwards like, You all right? And Im like, Im all right. Kate Bowler:Well, the quote that really resonated with me is when you said, They are moving onward, not away from you, but with you. Kelly Corrigan:And Im getting to walk with them way longer on their road, and I felt this sense that I could never possibly deserve that, that Im not that great a person, or a mom. Kate Bowler:You and I are super chatty people, but you make an amazing pitch for silence, and I am all for it, because everyone always had these go-to things to say with me like, You can do it, or Youre so brave, and all the things that made me feel like I was on the other side of plexiglass. Kate Bowler:My life doesnt exactly fit into neat categories anymore. He had things to do for days, and days, and days, and eulogies to write, and people to hug, and people to thank, and accounts to close, and cars to sell, and he had work to do, both emotional and just literally logistics. Im so compassionate to that thing that happens every time you tell someone that you had cancer, which is the other person trying to figure out why its not going to happen to them as fast as possible. She was really, really into manners, and as kind of an act of gratitude, not in an uptight, British way, but as a Look at us eating a meal together, like, Nobody should eat before the last person gets down. Gratefully, One of the hardest things Ive been wrestling with is not having any clear language for this weird place between sick and healthy, weak and strong. Thats where its at. Join New York Times bestselling author Kelly Corrigan as she choreographs big-ideas conversations with some of the creative thinkers and artists who define our time. Gratefully, What do we do when the labels were given arent necessarily the ones we choose for ourselves? You also realized there was incredible parenting magic in the phrase, Tell me more. So, what is this witchcraft you speak of? The Best Show with Tom Scharpling. You say something thats so weird cause I say it all the time, so when I read it I thought, Did you reach inside my brain? You adopted the phrase, Onward as a bit of a motto. I go, Oh, thank you for that bit of suggestion.. Kate Bowler:Theres this other phrase, I was wrong, that has real power, and you learned that in a really intense way when your grandma died. For a special listener who was just diagnosed, here are some thoughts on the stages of recovery that I encourage you to share with every last person you know who is in treatment for anything. Then I wanted to get right with him, and urgently. He was saddled with depression and anxiety, which led to his trying to make himself feel better and reduce the noise in his head. This beautiful eulogy helps to paint the full picture of Ryland: a unique combination of funny, stubborn, difficult and smart. They hate it. So, its funny that that phrase really begat the whole book in a way, because I had been feeling this shame about not really earning my days here, and then Ed and I were at dinner, and we were talking about the difference between saying Im sorry, and saying I was wrong, and I was saying, God, its so much more powerful though in the humility in saying I was wrong.. Im grateful for your wisdom in the messy, the uncertain and the in-between. Theres a whole world out there happening, and you can step into all kinds of things, and you dont need to know why youre leaving the house. When I read that, I just kept thinking of how scared Ive been about what I call being a zombie. Kelly Corrigan Wonders Weekly series started Oct. 4, 2020. She lives in Philly and I live in California. Kelly Corrigan:Youre feeling like ABC, not DEF. So thats the beauty of it. If you love the episode, please share and review. Kelly Corrigan is the best-selling author of "Tell Me More: Stories about the 12 Hardest Things I'm Learning to Say," and a proud graduate of the University of Richmond. 5-Minute Listen. Writer Kelly Corrigan urges 2021 grads to choose curiosity over judgment Writer Kelly Corrigan is a bestselling memoirist. Kate Bowler:Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Take Care Kate, Thanks so much for your refreshing, poignant, thought-provoking podcast. If you haven't heard of Father Greg Boyle, let us introduce you: a Jesuit priest who has a touch of Santa Claus in his affect, Greg Boyle has collaborated with thousands of former gang members to build thriving businesses and communities of radical acceptance in East LA. Ive read Tell Me More twice already. Theres a whole world out there happening, and you can step into all kinds of things, and you dont need to know why youre leaving the house. Mahra:Ive been singing these lines from a song by the Avett Brothers to my kids for years, and it goes like this. She has a beloved podcast called Everything Happens. Kelly Corrigan:So, I just really went bananas, because on top of the shirt problem, I went downstairs to clean the kitchen, and I found everybodys bowls, and spoons, and cups, and I had that reaction that so many women have, which is, Well I guess Im the least busy. Kate Bowler:Yeah. I even use it at the end of lectures like, Hey, this is the end of the 19th century. Kelly has also agreed to be my friend as part of her contractual commitment to this podcast. Despair defies description. I was wrong not to try to know her, and I could just see it in his face that it was like, Okay, you understand. But the fact is if I said, Tell me more, go on, what else, youd say the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing, and it would be like the thing behind the thing, behind the thing is where really the pain is, and if I had waited way longer, I wouldve been able to say, Oh, I understand.. And Ive talked to a couple of my girlfriends whove gotten divorced, and they say the exact same thing happens to them. Kelly Corrigan speaks with Maya Shankar about identity foreclosure, the trouble of cognitive forecasting, and new beginnings. Kelly Corrigan:Theres a thing Im aware of about eye contact between spouses, and you either make it, or you dont, and once youre aware that thats deeply meaningful, and that it has this kind of almost immeasurable, physiological effect on the other person, then you make an effort to look them in the eye, and that seems like such a small thing, but its actually definitional in terms of your relationship, in terms of whether its a good day, or a bad day, or a good interaction, or a bad interaction. Then the ocean with its waves so vast, impossible to touch bottom, then a maze, then a mountain, then seasons, a natural disaster. It doesnt end, and also you cant live there. Wondering if youve come across Bahai writings as I find them inspiring in building a circle of friends, a community and help each other grow together. Youre giving these beautiful phrases, and each of them feels like a kind of roadmap, and you start with one that really resonated deeply with me. Kelly shares her own "go to" mantra as well as two blessings from frequent Kelly Corrigan Wonders guest Kate Bowler and her co-author/friend/podcast producer Jessica Richie's beautiful and extremely useful book: The Lives We Actually Have (100 Blessings for Imperfect Days). Im so sorry youre not going to like any of my answers. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Kate Bowler:Todays episode is brought to you by our partners, North Carolina Public Radio WUNC, the Lilly Endowment, The Issachar Fund, The John Templeton Foundation, Faith and Leadership: An Online Learning Resource, and Duke Divinity School, and of course, Beverly Abel, Jessica Richie, and Be the Change Revolutions. I mean, people are getting colon cancer at your age all the time. Kilpy I absolutely love that phrase. CW: death of parent, death of friend to cancer. Onward, my dears. The idea that any day could be this huge day, I dont know, that really gets me out of bed, you know? And you know, it was so weird, but dying was the easier part of it. Kelly Corrigan:Like, Oh, well we still have sex, so were definitely not going to get a divorce, or you know, Oh my husband doesnt travel, so then were definitely not gonna get a divorce, or you know, I never smoked cigarettes, so Im definitely not going to get breast cancer. Kate Bowler:You put in a strong argument, if I may say it like that, for just being close to one another. Kelly Corrigan:Hey, thanks for having me. Its going to be great. Im so compassionate to that thing that happens every time you tell someone that you had cancer, which is the other person trying to figure out why its not going to happen to them as fast as possible. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Yeah. Kelly Corrigan:I mean, unless youre a monk, and youre meditating for 60 days in a mountain somewhere. Shes not going to hold their babies.. I loved this episode! Even the words left unsaid. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I was wrong, and that is very soothing, but then that took me back to this moment where I had gone to work for United Way after college, because I was going to save the world, and I was this total do-gooder. Kelly Corrigan:So, this was about all of these people calling me to say, I heard your friend died. I just want to show up and try to be of use. Then cancer hit. My mom called me maybe three months after my dad died. Kelly Corrigan:So, I had to wait, and then finally we had a window, and I said, I was wrong. Kelly shares her own go to mantra as well as two blessings from frequent Kelly Corrigan Wonders guest Kate Bowler and her co-author/friend/podcast producer Jessica Richies beautiful and extremely useful book: The Lives We Actually Have (100 Blessings for Imperfect Days). Today, were sharing this letter which Mary Hope wrote to officially introduce Alex because we find the kindness, transparency and unconditional love in it to be so inspiring. Kelly Corrigan:I mean, thats where it is. Her memoirs include " The Middle Place," and her first children's. Kelly Corrigan:Theres a thing Im aware of about eye contact between spouses, and you either make it, or you dont, and once youre aware that thats deeply meaningful, and that it has this kind of almost immeasurable, physiological effect on the other person, then you make an effort to look them in the eye, and that seems like such a small thing, but its actually definitional in terms of your relationship, in terms of whether its a good day, or a bad day, or a good interaction, or a bad interaction. We can remove the first video in the list to add this one. Tomorrow, March 28, 2023 would have been his 40th birthday. Ill read you a little bit from the very end of that chapter because the thing that he was saying I think is, This is how it goes.. Like the other day when I was being wheeled into a procedure, the nurse looked at my chart, and then casually said, Colon cancer. Our family motto is, We dont sell family. When our dog was a puppy and being housebroken, he kept sneaking around piddling in the corners of rooms. Onwards, but you use it so beautifully when youre talking about Lizs family and how they are now. My mantra for the last decade plus has been show up and be of use. What do we do when the labels we're given aren't necessarily the ones we choose for ourselves?
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