I love your testimony of the clearer elements of this beautiful doctrine Eric. "when brother Pratt went back last fall, and published the Revelation concerning the plurality of wives; it was thought there was no other cat to let out. I experienced a baptism of fire when I was only 14 years old and it has sustained me my entire life. And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place [the telestial kingdom where they now live], to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.". When I was introduced to this topic of multiple mortal probations several years ago it just made sense. Growing up in the Church, I had the same impressions as you regarding our exaltation. This clarification is very helpful. We invite you to share this with all those you know who might benefit from it. Multiple Mortal Probations The final theology on reincarnation on this plane we will look at in this article will be the Brighamite idea of multiple mortal probations (MMP). D&C 88 dates to 1833, which is long before JS was revealing/discussing reincarnation related doctrine. Likewise the use of the term "savior" is more vague than I think you are using it. I have not ever been constrained by The Spirit to speak in ways that invite others to look to me for the answers that must only come from Father. There is a humbling reward in the sense of Fathers confidence in me, We will be free to choose to be with those we love, who also want to be with us. There is just too much to experience for once to be enough. It is so obvious and even though hidden. But what is meant spiritually can be read in a physical way too. However, my understanding of this doctrine and how it works creates the opposite reaction. we would not have experience and could not really gain knowledge or wisdom. I was drawn to him because of these gifts that he freely shared with me. What I was looking forward to about eternity was the end of suffering. In his writings in Sein und Zeit (I only know the German title) he describes that our understanding of things as an increase of awareness the process is in his view not linear but circularhe calls that process the hermeneutic circle of understandingor as Gadamer would call it a hermeneutic spiral. 31 DRAFT Acknowledgements The San Bernardino County Homeless Partnership wishes to thank all the individuals and organizations that contributed to the preparation, implementation, and success of the 2023 Point-In-Time Count and Subpopulation Survey. I do hope this doctrine gives you and your family the hope you need. While young, we learn hot from cold, day from night, It is time to live in faith not fear. I do not hold a The is it confuses the radical contingency Mormon theology grants God in his being (rather than being a necessary being) with a God whodoesfall. I always thought it unfair that I would be judged on the privileged (but hard) Life I have lived, while another may have been born into a leper colony in India. But I can understand a model where the soul continues to return to learn new things and progress. My only doubt was in me and the ability to live the gospel of Jesus Christ. I dont want to repeat 5th grade again. I am a witness that these promises are true. This implications started with JS' apparent teaching that God the Father was a Christ during his mortal probation. I feel like this life is equivalent to a year in school and I am in 5th grade. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. And as this literally happens, every morning is a shadow of what will be in the long term of eternity. I have always know it to be true, the gospel of Jesus Christ, and have never doubted it, no, not even for a second. Can someone please give me some context for how this idea is considered doctrine? THE PROBATIONARY TEST OF MORTALITY. I must continually ask myself the question, Who am I to believe that Gods work is dependent on my understanding, teaching and attempting to enlighten the unenlightened? I must also daily keep in mind my own nothingness and utter reliance on The Savior of The World (2 Nephi 4). It gives context for the possibility that aborted and miscarried babies, or even inexperienced humans who leave the world prematurely can still have a shot at life and prove themselves (Abraham 3:25). The Church Has a Bunker-Like Network of Tunnels. brazzers danny d. cursive worksheets for kindergarten. Thank you again for bringing more clarity of the Great Plan to light. The group is True LDS Deep Doctrines. the past has fueled our desire to serve God more diligently, and to fight I know many people think this is false doctrine and I did put myself in their shoes to understand where they were coming fromI could see what they were trying to say, but the fruits werent lining up. In 1786, a guy named John Zephaniah Holwell published a tract called "Dissertation on the Origin of Intelligent Beings, and on Divine Providence".I recommend it to anybody curious about the ideas of a premortal existence, war in heaven, plan of salvation, opposition in all things, infant baptism, free agency, multiple mortal probations, etc. What follows is a thesis on the controversial doctrine from the 19th century referred to as multiple mortal probations, which fell out of favor along with Adam-God. Pamee, you have a wonderful heart and testimony. Unfortunately, the divine version of the doctrine has not, and may not soon receive the proper attention and audience it deserves. More significantly, JS' King Follett Sermon suggests that, after the resurrection, each heir to Godhood will eventually serve as a Christ in a mortal probation. "And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. Write a discussion post in which you do the following: Write a summary of the innovative idea that includes the following: A description of the innovation you chose. Some have said that it has to do with having more children and posterity. , Exactly Geri! This LDS doctrine of celestial kingdoms relies heavily on the Bible passage in John 14:2, "In my Father's house there are many mansions," as proof that these kingdoms exist in heaven. Now of course I think Brigham came to understand it the way you suggest. I did not go seeking a new doctrine. Dorthea, with what youve written, Im embarrassed to say I hadnt considered your insights on baptism in the context as a symbol for MP, but I feel you are wise to have picked up on it. The seriousness, the risk, and the glories of mortal life are undercut the moment one supposes he will have a million or more subsequent probations of the same sort. That one would be tempted to say this life is just too hard. Is she the main source? May God bless you too. The more I hear the more I learn from you and Julie!!! After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. I dont know perhaps I am wrong but it just came into my mind when I let the thought of multiple probations grow in my mind and heart. Just being made perfect from the get-go isn't something special. Thank you for bravely sharing it here in this public forum. To my sadness, and repulsion, I have recently seen how this Because LDS leaders sometimes refer to this life, before our death and eventual resurrection, as our "mortal probation," based on the scriptural term "probationary state," Daybell and Vallow call their belief in reincarnation "multiple mortal probations." p.104 - see also Documentary History of the Church 2:304-307 I told . 9. idea that a person would live their life on earth and then be permanently Perhaps Im misunderstanding. Item #6a. The views expressed herein belong to the authors only and do not represent official doctrine for any church. The fact there is no scripture or officially declared doctrine stating multiple mortal probations is false is absolutely an evidence in the doctrine's favor. widowsmitereport.wordpress. Single Probation Doctrine, and Mortal Experience. To go no more out finally made sense; Old Souls (and we have have all known them or ARE one ) finally made sense. The Father). Benjamin Seeker I understand the principle of Condensension and know of my involvement there. This teaching was perhaps even canonized as, "This is eternal livesto know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. Wow. This concept was taught by early LDS Church leaders. What surprised me was the fact that it resonated with something in me even as it was a total new doctrine to me. That seems a bit of a stretch. I have to be honest. However, the teaching was probably only explicitly taught to a select few. Please watch for Part 2 of this theme by Matt Palmer to be released in the next couple days, and Part 3 by Greg Christiansen a couple days thereafter. MARIA, Your email address will not be published. That actually seems more admirable to me - that Jesus himself "became" who he was through 1000's of lifetimes of progression and trial and error, just like the rest of us. When I wrote the first article in this series regarding Multiple Mortal Probations, I honestly expected it to be the least . It suggests that we find ourselves in endless cycles of creation, living and dying over and over, learning and progressing, ascending the ladder step-by-step until we eventually "get it right." That being said I am personally bound by the admonition given in countless times and ways throughout scripture and most clearly in the Doctrine and Covenants 63: 64. When I first heard this doctrine I felt a rush come over me that is hard to understand and explain. Likewise those who want Kabbalistic influence on Joseph (which I personally find pretty dubious - we don't know the extent of Neibaur's actual knowledge of Kabbalah or Kabbalistic texts) simultaneously require a misreading of these texts. the doctrine that has circulated these recent events. perhaps the first example of this idea. I am he. Im sealed to my husband. Blessings to all seekers. Despite the comments and quoted references that say Joseph taught reincarnation, I do not see any of his doctrine that teaches it. This life is the time and the day of our probation. ", More significantly, JS' King Follett Sermon suggests that, after the resurrection, each heir to Godhood will eventually serve as a Christ in a mortal probation. I shelved it for sometime until I was lead back to studying it a year later. It's a Mormon version of reincarnation, where a single spirit goes through several different turns on earth before moving on to the afterlife. presence which left him fallen to the ground, he was able to declare to are so advanced in their abilities and gifts from birth, such as music, art, If you have already answered this question in a post or book, could you direct me to it. Come what may; I believe what I believe, and if a mans belief, though strange, is cause for punishment or ridicule from anyone, which is the greater sin? never considered the possibility of living multiple lives, many are judging the He showed us the way how to ascend. Im glad you feel that way Kendall. Even more than that I feel that spirit of truth in my heart that it is true. Nor do I believe that a full understanding of Who I Am, in all the Eternal facets of my Being, qualifies me to take responsibility for doing Fathers work in somehow translating this knowledge to another. For me, if I get caught in thinking that something I say or do will be that which saves or enlightens you, I am in dangerous territory. Do we all have to get crucified and possibly multiple times? How have most LDS people come to learn of the concept of multiple probations? When you climb a ladder, you must begin at the bottom and go on until you learn the last principle; it will be a great while before you have learned the last. Multiple probations is not part of the doctrine of the Church, neither are we claiming that it is. The thought that there could be no progression after judgment felt to contrast Eric, But there is some mystery here. I do have a question though. Couldnt we just come again and again until we got it right? Callings Sharing the Gospel Volunteer and Serve Temples Family History. Thank you for sharing this. we are saviors in a derived sense in which we preach the gospel. Like another point of view on the same thing. God bless you, brother! Some may ask why I or anyone else have been privileged to learn of these doctrines while others have not. The only doctrine that Julie specifically mentions her stake president having a problem with is "multiple probations," also called multiple mortal probations. but it is necessary to know in the context of my exaltation. Thanks for sharing. . clarity to the many dreams, visions, memories, and Deja vu experiences that Thanks for sharing! For example, Apostle Heber C. Kimball compared several days of a man continuously working on a project to several successive probations of the same person working on a project: To me it not only set me free trying to tug and pull and push my husband in the gospel but it set him free as well. He wrote, "Jesus Christ spoke in this manner; I do as my Father before me did. (I havent read everything what was posted about that themeso I am sorry if I repeat things that you already mentioned.). If this were false, then why do I want to strive to be a better disciple of Jesus Christ? known to me. However the spirit worked upon me and I was reminded that my biggest question as a child was Where did God come from? I used to spend hours thinking about it even until my brain hurt. We all have to die to go further. Multiple Mortal Probations (MMP) Eternal Progression, and Progression between Kingdoms The Flag of the Kingdom of God Apostasy Unchangeability of the Doctrines of Salvation and Exaltation Fallibility or Infallibility of Men Appointed as Church Leaders Whether or Not the LDS Church Could Fall into Apostasy Thats kind of you to say. And even if a lot of words were taken out of the scriptures, the dynamic is still there No wonder they were so arrogant. Oh how I love you and Julie and all that I have learned from you both!! I often commented in Church Sunday School, that, to be considered Noble and Great!! to do for Him in the past is a great motivator for similarly serving Him in the Or a more default reading that doesn't inject as much into the text is simply those who live in a telestial way get rewarded with the same. Considering the modern Mormon understanding of the titles Jehovah and Elohim didn't develop until long after Brigham Young, it is understandable that he could have developed his own interpretation of Micheal, Jehovah and Elohim. In fact, he attributed his identification of Michael as God the Father to JS' commentary on Daniel and JS' equivalence of Adam, Michael, and the Ancient of Days. One must review and agree to the rules of the group, established due to a few that join just to create contention and kick against the pricks. It would be very helpful to me, if you could share scripture references for multiple probations. How unsearchable are the depths of the mysteries of him; and it is impossible that man should find out all his ways. It also appears to be welcomed and seriously considered among others of See 1 Corinthians 15:40-44. it is hard to accept ideas that have not been touted over pulpits or publicized 2. Anyways, it soon became apparent that his fruits were not matching what I knew to be honest and true from my own scripture study, and beliefs. We also know that there is an opposite to all things. Behold, great and marvelous are the works of the Lord. Who do I end up with ultimately in the celestial kingdom? Now the doctrine of multiple probations brings me great peace. Having been so moved upon in the process of discovery, my friend Greg and I compiled a book called Multiple Probations which is a compilation of interesting history, supportive scriptures, and informative quotes from early authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The more I know the more I am constrained to announce The Glory of God and my own unworthiness before He Who Is Mighty To Save. What seems to be missing is the escape clause to such a definitive end. I asked the spirit and he said only once before. What he explained can be understood as a spiritual path that one has to walk the path of baptism back home to heavenly father. ("Scriptural Items," F. D. Richards, August 27, 1843 . Your email address will not be published. I am forever grateful to you both and for your ability to enlighten ME!! About this group Our Purpose: As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we want to prepare ourselves for the day of Christ's return. It boggles my mind the intricacies of the plan and yet how simple it is! I could discern truth because I have long since done what you and Julie ask us to do almost every podcast. Many people, including my children, were hurt in the process, all because I was leaning on his spiritual gifts that turned out to be clouded with false doctrine. visionary, who can discern spirits, or who possess extraordinary compassion, Greg has perfectly captured my thoughts and feelings as well. Lucifer, where is thyglory, that I should worship thee? Thank you for reading this essay. and so I can testify that the doctrine of multiple probations is true doctrine. through contrasts. Why the title and what needs to happen to have that title. Heber C. Kimball then did the same to Brigham Young, i.e., ordained him to The Godhead. I love that you point our how the Ninth Article of Faith apples to all who earnestly and humbly seek the truth, and not for just a select few. I can only answer that through study, prayer, fasting, and a fair amount of grief, I have paid the price to know. Never at any time in my research and doctrinal interests have zombies, adultery, and murder ever remotely crossed my mind. Further, Mormon doctrine asserts that people can become gods. I now know for myself it is true doctrine. I believe with all my heart in the Ninth Article of Faith that God will yet reveal many great and important truths pertaining to the Kingdom of God. He wrote that Joseph stated, "Now the history of Josephus in Speaking of angels came down and took themselves wives of the daughters of men, See Geneses 6 Chapter 1-2, verses. What problem do you think the innovation was trying to solve? And as you mention that we are progressing to good or evil with every new morning the words of the philosopher Heidegger come into my mind. man. It is particularly comforting to realize that I can let go of the worry and anxiety of wayward children who have struggled to stay on the path, that this doctrine provides the hope that there is plenty of time, if they chooseto move forward in their ( or my own) progression. LDS sharing their beliefs about what the mysteries is hardly a breaking of the rules. Details mapped state by state. That this doctrine will promote casualness and laziness. This implication is emphasized by JS' teachings on identifying angels vs. evil spirits (found in D&C), which he taught on multiple occasions, maybe 5 or 6 times, before and after the Nauvoo endowment had been administered. version of the doctrine has been aired publicly, I am concerned that too many It should be made clear that the denomination Brigham Young founded in 1851, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has rejected these teachings. 9:27. continue in the path until the end of the day of probation, 2 Ne. Until I meet you. How tragic! Even when I was small, I felt that some spirits come to be tested and other (superior) spirits come to test! I feel a longing and hope that I can learn and progress for as long as I choose to without time limits. The Even that though is pretty vague and could easily be taken in terms ofAlma 42:25. In my experience the most important point of the discussion here, which I believe to be among earnest seekers of truth, is being lightly treated by those on this forum but clearly illustrated in your comment. The doctrine of multiple probations felt natural and right to me as soon as I heard them. JS taught many times that Michael stood next to Christ in authority, and he also taught that Elohim was the head of the Gods (i.e. This all adds up to only one conclusion in my mind, there is a way and a plan, and the fact that so many do not achieve their potential in a short life span, means there must be another time and place to prove themselves and the Doctrine of Multiple Probations is the only doctrine I see that provides a fair, and merciful means by which mankind may improve themselves line up line, precept upon precept enough to eventually become perfected in their own generations and exalted in all levels of Heaven. It explains how many in the premortal council of heaven had become noble and great (Abraham 3:22). They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving fathers heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain.. future. to be better than others or have suggested that even if it were a true That stopped me in my tracks and I didnt know quite how to answer that. Thank you Kim. I know Julie Rowe has been a source for many. Another point on this, it is said in the bible that men like Adam, Methuselah, and Enoch were men who became perfect in their generation. I have been a member of the church my entire life, and it has been my life. Great topic. as insights and spiritual impressions have come, I have not wanted to share the Some are asking why this doctrine is necessary. What, when, and to whom those truths could come was left open-ended. I met an individual who had seen me on one of those probationary Earths. Multiple Mortal Probations Part II Get link Facebook Twitter Pinterest Email Other Apps November 16, 2018 . I view these gifts largely to be the result of mortal Michael Quinn documented it as follows: By the time of his death in 1844, Joseph Smith had also reversed his prior rejection of the Cabala's doctrine of "transmigration of the souls." The very idea of reincarnation which we know to be a false doctrine- tells us that there is its opposite- which would be Multiple Mortal Probations. So, I'll just comment that thepoints you bring up nicely illustrate some of the basictension that this theology introduces. May God continue to inspire you and bless you and your family, you are certainly blessings us! By . 2:43 p.m. John Thomas is conducting cross . The Bible is ripe with evidence in this belief. Such an endeavor would not be possible without the collaboration and efforts of volunteers, community groups, faith- and . Tonya, I didnt know this about your family. First, one reason for living in multiple probations is to complete work started in earlier lives. are now throwing the baby out with the bathwater in what has been deemed a Receive ye, therefore, my law. I am finding that this doctrine adds more meaning and understanding to my gospel study. In my opinion Alma 5 and Alma 12, in their entirety, are both worthy of consideration along side many other scriptures that follow a pattern which is familiar to me. In the 1840s their polygamous relationship to the Mormon prophet was as secret as his conversion to reincarnation. Just think of the fun rides in life one could take though Ken! Nevertheless, when I first read, and continued to read, SO many quotes from the early Brethren/leadership of the church, pieces started to come together. 24This is eternal livesto know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. When I first heard of it, it made perfect sense to me and was exhilarating to my soul. Ill just simply say that time and space in the eternities is measured differently than here in the telestial world and all things are possible. [a] The Triumph and Glory of the Lamb: Doctrine and Covenants 76 in Its Historical Context Denver Carlos Snuffer Jr. is a Utah lawyer, an author of Restorationist devotional books, a lecturer, a speculative theologian, and claims to be a "revelator to fellowships of the remnants movement," a spiritual movement in schism with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). This was part of a long prayer. Joseph well understood multiple probation, but to openly teach it would have meant major upheaval and further loss of members. assigned to a kingdom of glory, whether Telestial, Terrestrial, or Celestial, So I see first hand the effects of not knowing for myself what is truth vs error. dark in so short a time clearly left an impression on Moses. Ive wondered about past lives. In my experience the most important point of the discussion here, which I believe to be among earnest seekers of truth, is being lightly treated by those on this forum but clearly illustrated in your comment. We welcome comments of all kinds on this blog and feel that people should be free to debate and discuss the topics in accordance with their personal views, so long as it is done in a courteous and respectful manner. millions of people from around the world are part of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints . The thought of using this Great questions and important ones to ponder on. What a great man and prophet he was. When I first heard you and Julie talk about multiple probations on a podcast I was surprised but thought: They are those who openly came into the presence of Christ and openly rejected what Christ is offering. Laman and Lemuel Were a Religious Product of their Day, The Right to Expression in the Kingdom of God, Light & Law #1 Two Laws For Every Kingdom, Women, Priesthood, and the Awful Monster of Traditional Belief, The Outer Vessel of King Noah and His Priests. Not all probation is negative; quite often, it is merely counsel to attend the temple more, read select scriptures, or pray more frequently and fervently. [i] Most Christians believe in the binary afterlife of heaven or hell. For others, it has given meaning and He trys to plant these seeds of doubt in my heart mind and spirit..all this does is make me feel closer to my Saviour , the early members of the church in Our Saviors time as well as in Joseph Smiths time , and closer to Joseph Smith and the pure doctrines that he was shown and had and could not share yet, and I am humbled, oh so very humbled to have been trusted with this great knowledge and the peace that it brings to my soul and my spirit and the hope it gives me for my family and my in active children .. to know that I chose in my own personal plan to have this opposition in my life in these last days for my own progression throughout the eternities and I know that that is the same for many of us who believe in this doctrine of multiple probation, may we all be strong enough to stand in and on these truths of further light and knowledge. Latest from Saturday LDS General Conference : Speakers discuss mental health, pandemic, church attendance and obedience. I don't deny one can read it that way, but the more natural reading is that in his first mortality the Father was Christ. Bruce R. McConkie was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when this fireside address . I do not believe I am alone in these sentiments. I can seeJoseph Smith easily deriving reincarnation from several passages in the New Testament. Even though we were sealed in the temple, it is only upon the condition of righteousness of the individual that the sealing will be valid. Scriptures General Conference Come, Follow Me Gospel Library Media Library Music Library Life Help Inspiration. The concept of "Multiple Mortal Probation" would be similar to the teaching of reincarnation, both of which are false doctrines.
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